A Tale of Two Stories: The Impact of Educator Decisions
Episode Summary
The salient theme of this podcast episode is encapsulated in the notion of "A Tale of Two Stories," which elucidates the divergent experiences of students navigating their educational journeys. This discourse unfolds through the lens of empowerment, illuminating how educators can cultivate hope and facilitate open doors for each student, thereby constructing an environment ripe with unlimited possibilities. In a unique format, Kathy Mohney contributes her insights post-discussion, enriching the conversation that examines the profound impact of educators’ intentions and actions on student outcomes. Notably, this episode reveals that each student's journey toward self-authorship is profoundly influenced by the narratives we create and the biases we may unconsciously perpetuate. We invite listeners to reflect on their own practices and the imperative of fostering an inclusive atmosphere where every student is empowered to define their own potential.
Additional Notes
The second episode of the tenth season unfolds as a compelling exploration of the dichotomy inherent in educational experiences, aptly titled 'Tale of Two Stories.' This discourse features the collaborative insights of a distinguished group of educators, including Kathy Mohney, Michael Pipa, Dr. Alicia Monroe and Dr. Grant Chandler, who collectively endeavor to illuminate the profound impact of educator actions on student outcomes. The episode is characterized by a unique format, wherein Kathy, unable to attend the live discussion, offers her reflections subsequent to the recorded dialogue. This innovative approach encapsulates the essence of the episode's theme: the necessity of fostering open doors and unlimited opportunities for students, a concept that has emerged as a compelling narrative throughout the season.
As we delve deeper, the conversation reveals critical themes surrounding self-agency, self-efficacy, and the journey towards self-authorship. The dialogue interweaves personal anecdotes, notably contrasting the empowering experiences of one speaker with the detrimental experiences of another, thereby illustrating the profound influence educators wield over their students' aspirations and identities. The speakers reflect on the imperative of recognizing and confronting personal biases that may inadvertently limit student potential, emphasizing that educators must actively cultivate an environment that nurtures growth and exploration. The episode culminates in a poignant reminder that the choices educators make can either open doors or close them, thus underscoring the profound responsibility borne by those in the educational sphere.
Takeaways:
- In this episode, we explore the profound theme of creating open doors and unlimited possibilities for every student, emphasizing the importance of fostering an inclusive environment.
- The conversation reveals a tale of two stories, highlighting how different experiences shape individual journeys toward self-authorship and agency in education.
- We must acknowledge that educators often possess good intentions, yet unintentional biases can close doors to students' potential and limit their opportunities for success.
- The episode underscores the necessity for educators to reflect on their actions and words, ensuring that their intentions align with the experiences of their students.
- A significant point discussed is the power of our choices as educators, which can either empower students or inadvertently hinder their growth and self-efficacy.
- Ultimately, the responsibility lies with educators to create nurturing spaces that invite exploration and innovation, allowing students to realize their fullest potential.
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Transcript
It's episode two of season ten and today it's the tale of two stories.
Speaker A:A new episode of the Wheelhouse begins right now.
Speaker A:Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day to give us a listen.
Speaker A:Season 10 features a team of four like minded friends and colleagues.
Speaker A:Kathy, Monique, Michael Pipa, Dr. Alicia Munro, and yours truly.
Speaker A:We've opened the conversation this season to think about empowering educators to cultivate hope.
Speaker A:In our second episode of season 10, we recorded in a slightly different format.
Speaker A:Kathy couldn't join us for a regular recording session in the studio, so she listened to the conversation Alicia, Michael and I had and then she got to share her own thoughts afterward.
Speaker A:It was an unplanned, yet really interesting, intriguing way to record the episode.
Speaker A:I hope you like it as much as I do.
Speaker A:Remember, the Wheelhouse exists to create an inclusive community of empowered educators who believe that together we can disrupt the transactional herding nature of schooling.
Speaker A:To create districts, schools and classrooms where each student feels confident, optimistic, capable, well supported and emboldened to be and to become who they're meant to be.
Speaker A:Today we're talking about what it means to create open doors and unlimited opportunities for each student ahead of time.
Speaker A:I thought we were going to have a really provocative conversation about this idea, but what really transpired was this tale of two stories and the and how this tale altered the journey towards self authorship for each of them.
Speaker A:I guarantee you you're not going to want to miss one word of this episode.
Speaker A:And keep in mind that at the end of the day, what we do for some children is even bigger than cultivating hope, creating open doors.
Speaker A:It's a matter of life and death.
Speaker A:This was a great conversation.
Speaker A:There were so many intriguing ideas like self authorship that were brought to this space.
Speaker A:Listen to the entire episode to hear the details together.
Speaker A:Let's ensure open doors and unlimited possibilities for each and every student.
Speaker A:And now, episode two and a great conversation with Kathy Mone, Michael Pipa, Dr. Alicia Monroe and me.
Speaker A:You're not going to want to miss it.
Speaker A:Take a listen.
Speaker A:Good morning, I'm Grant Chandler and we are back for another episode of the Wheelhouse.
Speaker A:The team is in the space.
Speaker A:Happy Tuesday to my dear friends and colleagues, Michael Piper and Alicia Munroe.
Speaker A:Good morning.
Speaker B:Good morning.
Speaker C:Good morning.
Speaker C:Happy Tuesday.
Speaker B:Happy Tuesday.
Speaker A:We're going to record in a different.
Speaker A:We're going to be creative today.
Speaker A:Kathy Moni is unavailable to us this morning, so she's gonna join us at the end of the episode.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna record her separately and we'll tie it all together into a nice little package.
Speaker A:So Kathy, good morning to you as well.
Speaker A:So hey, episode one just dropped about two hours ago.
Speaker A:We're recording episode two now.
Speaker A:Season 10 is in full swing.
Speaker A:I know you can't see cause this is a podcast, but Alicia and Michael are smiling from ear to ear and it is so great to see you all.
Speaker A:It was a great episode last time as we talked about how to engage with the Wheelhouse company following us on Instagram or LinkedIn, joining the conversation and subscribing to the Wheelhouse Chronicle on Substack, where you'll get to interact with Michael Pipa and the rest of us for real in person and of course even diving deeper into that if you would like in Learn harbor with the Wheelhouse Forum.
Speaker A:So hey, today let's talk about this theme for season 10, which is open doors and unlimited possibilities.
Speaker A:And it really builds upon what we were talking about.
Speaker A:If you Season nine, Alicia kind of in an organic way crafted the theme for season nine.
Speaker A:We kept talking about cultivating hope or killing dreams and that paradigm that it's one or the other with nothing in between.
Speaker A:And I think a natural follow up to that which kind of extends the idea is this idea of open doors and unlimited possibilities.
Speaker A:So today we're just going to explore that.
Speaker A:What does that mean?
Speaker A:What does that mean for each of us?
Speaker A:And more importantly, what does that mean for each of our students?
Speaker C:So I've been doing a great deal of reflection I've been really engaged in a great deal of reflection on this season's theme and I think around a lot of my research which was with respect to achieving potential and what allows the flow and the stream for educators to work with and co create a space with students where we can help them identify their potential and how we move them from building agency, not only their own agency, but how that moves to self efficacy where they can then in life author for themselves, author their path.
Speaker C:So I've been engaged in a great deal of reflection around that as I'm writing now and thinking about what is that path from self agency to self efficacy to self authorship, not only for students and educators, but around humanity.
Speaker C:So that's what drives my thinking this morning.
Speaker A:Grant, you know, as I was listening to you, of course, I always love to listen to you and to Michael as well.
Speaker A:I'm struck with how many times educators with good intentions think that they know and can identify a student's potential.
Speaker A:And I think, I think we, I think we can't.
Speaker A:I think we're wrong.
Speaker A:I think we're just flat out wrong.
Speaker A:I think that is absolutely impossible to do.
Speaker A:I think we have ideas.
Speaker A:Absolutely we have ideas.
Speaker A:But if you believe in self efficacy and agency, if you believe in the growth mindset, then we know that the sky's the limit for each and every student, regardless of whether they have an IEP or not, whether they're an English language learner or not, regardless of what zip code they come from or any other way that they identify themselves or are identified by other people.
Speaker A:The sky's the limit because there are so many examples of, if I want that badly enough, I can get it right, I can achieve, I can attain whatever that is.
Speaker A:And I think for me, piggybacking onto what Alicia said, I hope we stop identifying possibilities and remember that they are unlimited and let students, let students define what those unlimited possibilities are.
Speaker B:I love the deft way, Alicia, you moved from exploring potential to self efficacy and helping the learner inhabit that chair of authorship in their life where they begin to dream actively about what their life is going to look like beyond just could or should, what it's going to look like, and the moves that they make as a result of their work with us, more experienced learners who have walked a similar stretch and know the kind of nourishment and conversation we absolutely need as we're doing this stuff.
Speaker B:It reminded me of a conversation I had when I was a 10th grader in high school in social studies class.
Speaker B:We had gotten our first quarter grades and I had never gotten a grade so low that my first move was, he must have made a mistake.
Speaker B:So I waited till the end of class and I approached my teacher, Dr. David Dupre, who decided to engage me in conversation.
Speaker B:Thank God, because clearly he, he had not made a mistake.
Speaker B:But he looked at me and he said, you know, I may have.
Speaker B:Do you have time to take a look at the grade book?
Speaker B:And he opened it up and I remember him taking the sheet and placing it underneath my line and going right across the numbers.
Speaker B:And it took all of about a second for me to look at those numbers and go, oh, he didn't make a mistake at all.
Speaker B:And the conversation didn't end there.
Speaker B:I was so embarrassed.
Speaker B:I remember how flushed my face was.
Speaker B:I apologized immediately and I tried to recover myself.
Speaker B:And I think I said something like, this won't ever happen again.
Speaker B:And he looked at me and he smiled and he said, I'm getting the feeling it won't.
Speaker B:He kept such a careful watch over me in Quarters 2, 3 and 4 and by the end of the year, celebrated my success.
Speaker B:And I've always remembered that as.
Speaker B:As a young person where I was going through the motions as a student, and he was asking something quite different from us.
Speaker B:And I felt like the care in that conversation meant I wasn't going to do it alone.
Speaker B:He was really interested.
Speaker B:That's just a snapshot of what was a very important relationship.
Speaker B:But when I think about unlimited possibilities and open doors, it begins with conversations.
Speaker B:For me, that's how doors get opened.
Speaker B:I'm also thinking about how New York State Education Department has just released its graphic for the portrait of a Graduate.
Speaker B:And I'm looking at each of the domains around this beautiful graphic because it's really pleasing to look at.
Speaker B:One of them says innovation, and that we want our graduates to be innovators.
Speaker B:And so I'm reminded of open doors and unlimited possibilities.
Speaker B:And I know that in order for our students to be innovators, they're educators have to be allowed to be innovators.
Speaker B:And what do those possibilities look like?
Speaker A:So that's a fantastic story of what it is that we really want to see happen for every student.
Speaker A:And I'll bet you, as we're listening, people are saying, oh, of course, you know, everything I do, everything I do, right?
Speaker A:I come to the classroom, and everything I do is about open doors and unlimited possibilities.
Speaker A:And I just want to caution us.
Speaker A:I want to caution us about that, because I think a lot of the ways that schooling is organized and that what we do doesn't really open doors and lead toward unlimited possibilities.
Speaker A:It actually shuts the door, right?
Speaker A:I think we send a lot of messages that we shouldn't send.
Speaker A:You know, like, how do we.
Speaker A:How do we grade?
Speaker A:How do we provide feedback for students?
Speaker A:How do we challenge them?
Speaker A:Alicia has this.
Speaker A:And I'm hoping this is what I know you're getting ready to talk.
Speaker A:Alicia has this really powerful story that she's told previously where, you know, her writing was bludgeoned by a teacher, right?
Speaker A:It was just bludgeoned.
Speaker A:Bloody, bloody, ugly red.
Speaker A:It was bludgeoned.
Speaker A:And, you know, at least I don't want to tell your story, but I rem.
Speaker A:I remember you telling the story, right?
Speaker A:And I'm thinking to myself, holy cow.
Speaker A:This is a woman who became.
Speaker A:Who earned a doctorate degree and who teaches other students about how to be a researcher and a writer and a publisher, and she's an author herself.
Speaker A:And I wonder.
Speaker A:And I don't remember exactly what grade she was in, but I was like, you know, like, holy cow.
Speaker A:If Alicia had taken that bludgeoned work to heart and said, oh, apparently I'm not smart enough to be a writer.
Speaker A:I'm not talented enough to do what would have happened.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Would Alicia have, have, have.
Speaker A:Would she have.
Speaker A:Would she be doing Right.
Speaker A:She's not done.
Speaker A:Would she be doing what she is today?
Speaker A:You know, and so as you were talking, Michael, I was like, oh, yes, go, go, go.
Speaker A:And yet how many times for what kind of student do we slam the door shut?
Speaker A:And Alicia's story is just one.
Speaker A:I'm sure it's not the only one that ever happened to her.
Speaker A:And I'm sure if we.
Speaker A:If we were to pull a lot of.
Speaker A:A lot of adults and a lot of students, especially students from marginalized groups, would their experience be different?
Speaker A: And of course, now it's: Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So, Alicia, I just told your story, and I know you were just.
Speaker A:You were listening and giving me the thumbs up, but, you know, what's your reaction to that, Dr. Monroe?
Speaker B:No, it's.
Speaker C:It's wonderful.
Speaker C:And Grant, I love the allyship that I get in this space.
Speaker C:So tell my story, because you have access to spaces that I don't have, just because I am Afro Latina.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So I do appreciate you amplifying my voice and my narrative.
Speaker C:So thank you for that.
Speaker C:And that was accurate.
Speaker C:So, Michael, oftentimes I have to live vicariously through your story, because that's not my story.
Speaker C:Right, right.
Speaker C:That doesn't represent my narrative.
Speaker C:My narrative is not the cultivating hope side of the spectrum.
Speaker C:It's the killing dream side of the spectrum, unfortunately.
Speaker C:And when.
Speaker C:When.
Speaker C:When I am, I get my wonderful college acceptance letters to Ivy League schools and very competitive schools, and I'm sitting in a class that is Advanced placement, and my teacher says in front of the.
Speaker C:That I will never succeed in the.
Speaker C:The college that I planned on attending in front of the whole classroom after she slaps the.
Speaker C:The bloody red essay that I did on my desk.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:What impact does that have?
Speaker C:And I was a senior in high school in an advanced placement course.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I am the product of New York City public schools, so that is exactly where it happened.
Speaker C:All right, so hopefully there is some change in the system.
Speaker C:But I also want to offer another story.
Speaker C:During my 11th grade year in an advanced English class where I kept submitting papers that I knew that I worked hard on, and I continued to get low grades, C's and D's, and when I went to ask for help, the teacher alluded to I was working to my potential.
Speaker C:So When I went to my mom, who had her master's in English, who is an educator herself, and I said, I feel that this teacher has something against me.
Speaker C:And you know, as a teacher herself, she came into coalition with teachers.
Speaker C:Alicia, I think you just need to try harder.
Speaker C:Well, after the third try, and she started to see the collapse of my grade and I've never experienced before, she said, allow me to do your next assignment for you.
Speaker B:Ooh, here we go.
Speaker C:My mother never did my homework, nor did my, my dad.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:I came from a household is we do it.
Speaker C:Yeah, you ask for help, okay?
Speaker C:But she wanted, she wanted to prove my argument.
Speaker C:So she, she, she, she and I did it together.
Speaker C:She corrected the narratives down to every grammatical piece, every convention, right?
Speaker C:I submitted the paper, it came back with a D. At that time, my mother and father and for my father to take off work is a lot because I came from an old school household where the head of the household is the breadwinner, made an appointment with the principal of the high school and she showed.
Speaker C:And first of all, she apologized me to me.
Speaker C:She said, alicia, I never would think that this is the case, but I think that this is the case here, okay?
Speaker C:There was something clouding, that's all she said, this teacher's eye.
Speaker B:Something, right?
Speaker C:That's it.
Speaker C:Because she didn't want to cloud my faith and my hope right?
Speaker C:In the future, in my own future.
Speaker C:So she said, I think there is something.
Speaker C:She didn't qualify to something.
Speaker C:And she went up to the school and I remember the principal, and the principal said, well, let me see, and called the teacher down.
Speaker C:And I remember the teacher had a class and the principal said, I don't care, I'll send coverage.
Speaker C:You come down now.
Speaker C:I am meeting with such and such.
Speaker C:So when the teacher came in, he says, well, then you need to excuse the student.
Speaker C:And the principal said, I will not excuse the student.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:And there was justice that day, right?
Speaker C:So the head.
Speaker C:We have power as educators.
Speaker C:We have power as educators.
Speaker C:Are we co creating or are we controlling?
Speaker C:Controlling to the point where we are can sometimes fill that cup.
Speaker C:Michael, your experience or kill dreams, as in my experience.
Speaker C:Thank God I had strong parents who believed in me.
Speaker C:But justice was served that day.
Speaker C:So grant back to what you were sharing about experiences, right?
Speaker A:Because we know, we know that educators have tremendous power.
Speaker A:And we also know that that power can be used for good.
Speaker A:And we know that that power can be used to harm.
Speaker A:And we have to be.
Speaker A:This podcast this season is about the choices that we make to do good to create open doors and unlimited possibilities for each student.
Speaker A:And hey, we are not saying.
Speaker A:We are absolutely not saying that you don't give kids honest feedback.
Speaker A:You know, if you get.
Speaker A:If you get something that isn't good, you know, we're not telling you to tell the kid it's good.
Speaker A:We're telling you to give the student feedback and direction for how it can get better.
Speaker A:And we're also saying, at least I'm saying, and I'm sure that you will chime in and agree, we're also saying we don't know a student's potential.
Speaker A:So when we say you're working up to your potential, we don't know what we're talking about.
Speaker A:We have no idea what we're talking about.
Speaker A:So we got to quit talking like that.
Speaker A:And we just got to nurture kids to go forth, right?
Speaker A:And go and work and succeed as much as they can.
Speaker A:Because I will tell you, there are thousands and millions of stories of students who have surpassed what some educator thought was their potential.
Speaker B:And it circles back to that.
Speaker B:That fundamental tenet and practice in powerful student care of surfacing those mental models is one of the things the brain loves to do, is cognitive shorthand.
Speaker B:And so we adopt all different kinds of cognitive shorthand.
Speaker B:And those kinds that are based on inherent bias do tremendous, tremendous harm.
Speaker B:And if we're not brave enough to surface our own mental models, the ideas and attitudes that support our decision making, especially the on the fly, automated decision making, and we've not earned the right to occupy an instructional space.
Speaker B:We just haven't.
Speaker B:We forfeited it.
Speaker B:And that story is just.
Speaker B:It is such a stunning illustration of that.
Speaker B: arrived at a better place in: Speaker C:So needless to say, just to close out the story, what the principal did was he collected all of my work, asked me to submit clean copies, and he gave it to another teacher to grade.
Speaker B:I'm liking this principal an awful lot.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:He was.
Speaker C:He was.
Speaker C:He was acclaimed in his field, right?
Speaker C:So he.
Speaker C:He set the tone for leadership at that time because he was ahead of the time, right.
Speaker C:And he was awarded and recognized for the great work that he did because I attended one of the first magnets, Magna Blues and Queens, Right.
Speaker C:So I just.
Speaker C:Needless to say that of course, extracting the paper that my mom wrote, right, because I actually then turned around and did the assignment myself, I came out with an A minus in that class.
Speaker C:So I went from C minus, D to, to A minus.
Speaker C:And at the end of that, that year, that particular teacher's contract was not renewed wild because of, of the, the pebble in the eye.
Speaker C:That something, that mental model, I call it something different, and that's what we called it in my household.
Speaker C:But that, that reality check set in that that individual did not belong in the classroom.
Speaker C:And soon afterwards, that other teacher that bloodied my paper grant had retired from the system.
Speaker C:So there is some sort of extraction that takes place.
Speaker C:But administrators have the power to make those decisions.
Speaker A:What I want us all to think about is how do we.
Speaker A:How do we surface our own mental models so that we say things differently, right?
Speaker A:So that we interact in ways with students that don't close doors or limit possibilities.
Speaker A:You know, I was in the classroom for 15 years, and I, I can't.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I'm trying to.
Speaker A:You know, obviously that was a few years ago.
Speaker A:And, you know, 15 years is a lot of students when you have like 150 or 170 a year.
Speaker A:But I was like, you know, I, I can't identify because I never thought that way.
Speaker A:I can't identify a particular potential that I've ever thought about with a student.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:In fact, I preferred being a potential breaker.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I wanted to help them break through those preconceived notions of what having a potential was all about.
Speaker A:And I think that's the important lesson, I think, for us today is that what we say and how we say it and what our intentions are.
Speaker A:You know, this is the.
Speaker A:This is the episode of two stories.
Speaker A:There's the story of.
Speaker A:There's the story of Michael, that 10th grader, right?
Speaker A:And the right way to do that work and to support that journey from agency to self efficacy to self authorship.
Speaker A:And then there's the wrong way in the story of Alicia's experience where, you know, maybe unintentionally, but maybe there were some innate biases that maybe they were implicit, maybe they were explicit.
Speaker A:I mean, we don't have that person to talk to right now.
Speaker A:We don't know.
Speaker A:And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter because those biases, whether they were implicit or explicit, were intended to limit someone's potential.
Speaker A:They were to harm.
Speaker A:Yeah, they were intended to harm.
Speaker A:They were intended to shut down.
Speaker A:They were intended to teach her her place.
Speaker A:Guess what?
Speaker A:Least you didn't need your help.
Speaker A:She found her place, right?
Speaker A:And our students, whoever they are, they'll Find their place.
Speaker A:That's not our job.
Speaker A:Our job is to empower them to do so.
Speaker A:So when we think about this episode of Open doors and unlimited possibilities Frame It All, Mel King is coming to mind again today.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Mel King is coming to mind today because of that brilliant statement which he said not because he wanted to be brilliant, but it was just exactly what he was experiencing.
Speaker A:So it was unintended brilliance.
Speaker A:But it's brilliance that I can't let go of.
Speaker A:And that is, you know, are we creating spaces where our children, each student, can breathe and are we creating spaces where we're nurturing open doors, unlimited possibilities for each and every one, or are we doing either on purpose or because we're unaware, are we doing things that are limiting, you know, limiting potential and closing doors?
Speaker A:At the end of the day, the choice is ours.
Speaker A:We're the educator in the space.
Speaker A:That's our responsibility and it's also our choice.
Speaker A:And there's not.
Speaker A:You don't fall somewhere in the middle.
Speaker A:You'll either stand there at the door making sure the door is open.
Speaker C:Or.
Speaker A:You walk away from the door and the door slams shut.
Speaker A:It's really it, right?
Speaker A:You only have two choices.
Speaker A:There are only two.
Speaker A:There are either limited possibilities.
Speaker A:Potential or there's unlimited possibilities, which is far more beautiful in reality.
Speaker A:Well, I get to welcome Kathy Mone to the wheelhouse here in episode two in a separate and individual private recording session.
Speaker A:Welcome, Kathy Moni.
Speaker D:Hello, Grant Chandler.
Speaker D:It's such a privilege to be here in this private conversation with you.
Speaker D:I absolutely missed our time together with all four of us.
Speaker D:But then again, I didn't really miss it because it was.
Speaker D:Was really cool to be able to listen to the conversation as an outside set of ears for the first time.
Speaker A:So I know, in full disclosure, I know what you were doing on Tuesday morning at 8:30 and I know that we were having way more fun, oh my gosh.
Speaker A:Than you were.
Speaker A:Way, way more fun.
Speaker D:Way more fun.
Speaker A:There's no comparison.
Speaker A:But you're right.
Speaker A:I mean, I bet it is very interesting.
Speaker A:As we were, I mean, we had a great conversation and we're going to talk a little bit about it and we're going to merge all of this into one episode.
Speaker A:So you're going to get a little bit different format.
Speaker A:For those of you who are listening to episode two, we're taping it in a different way just to deal with life happens sometimes and you are not able to be where we want to be at 8:30 on the time when we record.
Speaker A:So yeah, so it was really interesting to.
Speaker A:And as we were taping, I knew that as we were talking about what emerged as a tale of two stories, I knew that you and I were going to talk about it later.
Speaker A:So it was kind of fun to listen to it.
Speaker A:I was, of course, not an outsider, but.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So you had an opportunity to listen to the entire episode.
Speaker A:Of course it'll be edited a little bit before it gets to publication.
Speaker A:So I know that the whole point of episode two is to talk about this theme of open doors and unlimited possibilities.
Speaker A:And we kind of gravitated toward this tale of two cities.
Speaker A:So let's kind of approach it first.
Speaker A:What did you think as you were listening to that episode?
Speaker D:Yeah, I think that, you know, as we continue to do so, well, is this completely unscripted conversation.
Speaker D:So to have Michael share his story first in regards to his experience in high school, and then have Alicia follow up with a very different experience that she had also in high school, that was fascinating to hear the difference in two very different worlds.
Speaker D:And what.
Speaker D:I mean, I. I was in that space of note taking and listening and just thinking.
Speaker D:I mean, Alicia had me at self agency to self efficacy to self authoring.
Speaker D:Like, that was a mic drop to me.
Speaker D:I was getting like, done, like, episode over.
Speaker D:We're good and knowing, like, thinking.
Speaker D:I had never thought of that before.
Speaker D:And really understanding that as we are moving into spaces ourselves, how we're we do self author and how do we support students in getting there and what that means in the power that we hold as educators in.
Speaker D:In words and in actions, in body language, and how we set up our classrooms and how we position things, all of those pieces really come in to what is that message that we're sending?
Speaker D:What is our intention?
Speaker D:What does that mean?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:As I was listening to the stories come out and then listening to you, one of the things that we say in powerful student care is intentions are one thing, but what kid experiences is another.
Speaker A:And certainly you can argue here in these tale of two stories that the intentions were very different.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So here, intention played a major role in what was going on and determining what each person experienced.
Speaker A:But, you know, sometimes our intentions aren't that blatantly horrible.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And yet children experience things that we did not intend for them to have happen.
Speaker A:So I think, absolutely, when we think about open doors and unlimited possibilities, our intent matters.
Speaker A:What they experience matters as well.
Speaker D:Absolutely.
Speaker D:And that's why, to me, that those unintentional pieces are so significant in how do we unpack our mindsets what does that mean?
Speaker D:To really be looking at and digging into our own beliefs, our own biases that we maybe don't know exists?
Speaker D:And how do we surface those to be able to start to recognize that actions, words, the way we decorate our classroom, the way that we decorate our building, if we're at the leadership level, whatever that looks like, what message are we sending?
Speaker D:And is that what's being received by our students, that ultimately we're either opening or closing that door for each of them?
Speaker A:And I think that's the.
Speaker A:I think that's, for me, that's the scary part.
Speaker A:And it's also the really, the most important thing for us to remember is that every single decision we make, from a little stupid little decision that seems stupid.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Seems like a trivial, little insignificant decision to all the big ones.
Speaker A:Every decision we make has a consequence about what somebody experiences.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And you said that in the conversation, right, with what we say, how we say it, what are our intentions and whether we mean to do harm?
Speaker D:I mean, we've, we've talked about this many times throughout the.
Speaker D:The seasons on this podcast that we, we know educators aren't out there intending to do harm, but are we asking ourselves those questions around, what is it that we're doing and saying, how are we doing it?
Speaker D:How are we delivering that message?
Speaker D:And is it sending a different.
Speaker D:Is there a different experience on the other end, the person that's actually receiving it?
Speaker D:You know, my husband and I were.
Speaker D:We love to go to the farmer's market on the weekends, and there's this beautiful new building in our community, a school building that my husband just keeps talking about it, how beautiful it is.
Speaker D:They've just rebuilt it in this pretty quite impoverished community.
Speaker D:But this beautiful building and how different that is from what it used to be when he actually went to that school as a child at one point, and I said, how about what goes on inside that building?
Speaker D:You know, so absolutely every child deserves that.
Speaker D:I mean, that message being sent, even with the building, we deserve a new building, a new school, this brick and mortar space, we deserve this.
Speaker D:But what's most important is what's happening inside.
Speaker D:Inside those doors, inside those classrooms.
Speaker D:Does it match what that building looks like, what message they're getting by having this new space?
Speaker D:Are those the same kind of unlimited possibilities that are being message to them by the actions and words from all of the administrators in that space?
Speaker A:And we, as educators, we have to be brave enough to ask that question.
Speaker A:I was a high school teacher, so I would see 150 to 100, depending on the years, 150 to 170 students a day.
Speaker A:I hope it was closer to 150, because that makes me exhausted just to think about now.
Speaker A:And if at any given day, if you ask yourself if you're brave enough to ask the question, no matter how good your intentions are, right.
Speaker A:There's something that could have been a little bit different and a little bit better to be experienced by at least one person, Right?
Speaker D:Absolutely.
Speaker A:So the answer every day is, you know, oh, you know, wasn't quite good enough.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Wasn't quite good enough.
Speaker A:But we have to get to the point where that's okay.
Speaker A:I mean, it's not okay that we weren't good enough, but we don't beat ourselves up about that.
Speaker A:But we say, wait a minute, how do I focus?
Speaker A:How do I really be in tune with falling short for that particular student so that I don't do it again, Right.
Speaker A:So that I.
Speaker A:That I'm conscious of.
Speaker A:Of that.
Speaker A:Because, you know, powerful messages are interpreted lots of different ways.
Speaker A:And when you've got 150, there's, you know, it's 150 different ways of interpreting something.
Speaker A:But we.
Speaker A:We have to be.
Speaker A:We have to be courageous enough, in my opinion, to ask a lot of questions to, you know, to.
Speaker A:We should be asking more questions than we are making decisions.
Speaker D:Absolutely.
Speaker D:And I think when we know better, we do better, and we're human and we're.
Speaker D:We're not going to be perfect.
Speaker D:And so being willing to reflect, to surface our mental models, to be honest with ourselves and continue to grow and to be the best versions of ourselves for every single student, to ensure that we are providing open doors and creating unlimited possibilities.
Speaker A:And to go back and to honor Alicia's story, I think not to.
Speaker A:You know, certainly this conversation has been about intent and recognizing that we all have good, positive intent, but we also have to check ourselves, right?
Speaker A:Because not everybody.
Speaker A:Not everybody comes to the space with good, honest intent.
Speaker A:And some of us come to the space with implicit or explicit bias that we have to be willing to let go of.
Speaker A:And Alicia's story, and there are countless examples of that story every single day all over the country are examples where bias, right, gets in the way of good intentions.
Speaker A:And we have to be.
Speaker A:We also have to be really good at surfacing those, you know, confronting them, right, Confronting those mental models and thinking about, you know, where they come from and why they.
Speaker A:Why they are what they are and how we change.
Speaker A:Change them.
Speaker A:Because that's also really important to this idea of open doors and unlimited possibilities.
Speaker D:Completely agree.
Speaker D:And I appreciate you bringing us back to that.
Speaker D:I think that that is significant in the growth as humans and knowing that as we learn and grow within ourselves, we can make those changes.
Speaker D:We can do better for each student.
Speaker A:We have to.
Speaker D:We have to.
Speaker A:We have to.
Speaker A:Their lives, their lives depend on it.
Speaker A:So if we enter classroom spaces to work with young people, we must, we absolutely must be ready, willing, courageous and able to, to identify those things that get in the way.
Speaker A:Our children need that.
Speaker A:They demand that of us.
Speaker A:And they have every right to demand that of us and to expect that of us.
Speaker D:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And that, my friends, brings us to the real end of Episode two.
Speaker A:We'll see you next week in the Wheelhouse.
Speaker A:And that's a wrap of season 10, episode two of the Wheelhouse.
Speaker A:A special thank you to the team, Kathy Mone, Michael Pipa and Dr. Alicia Munro.
Speaker A:We're back in the studio next week and we can't wait to continue the conversation with you.
Speaker A:To each of you who have ever felt that you weren't in a space where you could breathe or where someone was limiting your potential, this one's for you.
Speaker A:We hope you'll join the Wheelhouse Company.
Speaker A:Are you a like minded educator who's committed to open doors and unlimited possibilities for each student?
Speaker A:Follow Students Matter LLC on Instagram or LinkedIn or any of the four of us who are also on LinkedIn.
Speaker A:Subscribe to the Wheelhouse Chronicle on Substack.
Speaker A:Michael's waiting to hear your comments and we're all excited to continue this conversation with you.
Speaker A:That's thewheelhouse.substack.com Join the curated Community the Wheelhouse Forum only available is Students Matter's very own Learn harbor and that's the learnharbor.thinkific.com the Wheelhouse is a production of Students Matter LLC.
Speaker A:Our show's theme music, Off We Go was written and performed by Cody Martin and obtained through soundstripe.com stop by our website and check out what we offer at www.ourstudentsmatter.org.
Speaker A:together, our goal is simply to prove to each student and to each teacher that they are both distinctive and irreplaceable.
Speaker A:Until next time.
Speaker A:Remember, we got this.
