Inspiring Exceptionalism: A Deep Dive into Transformational Leadership
Summary
Transformational leadership is defined by Terri Perez as the capacity to "inspire others to achieve exceptional things" transcending their own preconceived limitations. In this enlightening episode, we engage with Terri Perez, the 2024 inaugural recipient of the ISTE + ASCD Transformational Leader Award. With over two decades of experience in education, Terri has spearheaded innovative leadership programs and fostered an environment where educational excellence is accessible to all students. Our discussion delves into the essence of transformational leadership, exploring how such leaders cultivate their communities and withstand resistance when striving for change. Listeners will glean insights on the vital importance of connection, support, and the unwavering resolve required to inspire and empower others in the face of systemic challenges.
Additional Notes
Transformational leadership is a concept that resonates deeply within the educational landscape, especially as articulated by Terri Perez, the 2024 inaugural recipient of the ISTE + ASCD Transformational Leader Award. In this enlightening discourse, we delve into the essence of transformational leadership. Through her extensive experience in education, particularly in her role as the director of alternative certification programming for a significant charter organization in Texas, Perez exemplifies the transformative potential of leadership in educational settings. She articulates the necessity of building a community of like-minded individuals, emphasizing that a singular leader cannot effectuate change in isolation. The dialogue explores the challenges of resistance faced by transformational leaders, particularly in environments resistant to change, and underscores the importance of cultivating trust and collaboration among educators. Perez's insights serve as a clarion call for educators to embrace the complexities of their roles and to foster a culture of empowerment, ultimately striving to create educational experiences that prioritize the well-being and potential of every student.
Takeaways:
- Transformational leadership is characterized by the ability to inspire individuals to exceed their own perceived limitations and achieve extraordinary outcomes.
- The process of identifying and connecting with like-minded individuals is crucial for the success of transformational leaders in their initiatives.
- Resistance is a natural aspect of leadership, and understanding its roots is essential for effective transformational leadership.
- Creating an environment of trust and vulnerability fosters collaboration and is essential for cultivating a thriving educational community.
- Transformational leaders must balance their aspirations with the practical realities of their organizational contexts to effect meaningful change.
- Maintaining a reflective practice is vital for leaders to ensure alignment with their purpose and to sustain their mental and emotional well-being.
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Transcript
What exactly is a transformational leader?
Speaker A:How do these leaders find their people?
Speaker A:How do they stay grounded in their resolve despite all the resistance?
Speaker A:Let's find out from a national award winning transformational leader herself.
Speaker A:A new episode of the Wheelhouse begins right now.
Speaker A:Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day to give us a listen.
Speaker A:Season 10 features a team of four like minded friends and colleagues.
Speaker A:Cathy Mone, Michael Pipa, Dr. Alicia Munro and yours truly.
Speaker A:We've opened the conversation this season to think about empowering educators to cultivate open doors and unlimited possibilities.
Speaker A:The Wheelhouse exists to create an inclusive community of empowered educators who believe that together we can disrupt disrupt the transactional hurting nature of schooling.
Speaker A:To create districts, schools and classrooms where each student feels confident, optimistic, capable, well supported and emboldened to be and to become who they're meant to be.
Speaker A:Episodes of the Wheelhouse will explore bodies of knowledge and expertise that align to this vision and these guiding principles.
Speaker A:Our team and our guests are committed to this fundamental challenge to realize just exactly what we want for each student to experience in school.
Speaker A: day's episode, we welcome the: Speaker A:As the director of alternative certification programming for one of the largest charter organizations in the state of Texas, which serves almost 50, 50,000 scholars across the state, Terry Perez has spearheaded many of the district's innovative leadership development programs, including a principal residency and a formal mentoring program for new school leaders.
Speaker A:She's proudly led the instructional design, launch and administration of Texas's first learning management system for students and teachers.
Speaker A:She's more than 20 years of experience in education, but Terry continues to her curiosity about what adults can do to make educational excellence accessible for every student.
Speaker A:In our conversation, she'll talk about how she defines transformational leadership, what it looks like in action, the importance of finding our people, and how to remain steadfast when the resistance is strong.
Speaker A:And now, episode nine and a great conversation with our special guest, Terry Perez and our Wheelhouse team, Kathy mone, Michael Piper, Dr. Alicia Monroe and me.
Speaker A:You're not going to want to miss it.
Speaker A:Take a listen.
Speaker A:Good morning.
Speaker A:It is September in the Wheelhouse.
Speaker A:We are about to officially say sayonara to summer.
Speaker A:I'm a little bit sad about that, but hey, fall is beautiful depending on where in this country you live.
Speaker A:So hey, good morning and welcome back.
Speaker A:I want to say good morning to my Wheelhouse team.
Speaker A:They're all back in the Wheelhouse today.
Speaker A:Every single one of them is here and I'M super excited about that.
Speaker A:So welcome Kathy Mone, Michael Pipa and Dr. Alicia Monroe.
Speaker B:Good morning.
Speaker C:Good morning.
Speaker C:Hello.
Speaker A:How are you all?
Speaker B:So good.
Speaker B:Hey, family.
Speaker A:Hello.
Speaker D:Hello.
Speaker A:We are post Labor Day and heading toward the season finale.
Speaker A:We have a couple of amazing guests left to join us in the wheelhouse before we assemble all of them.
Speaker A:A Real Housewife style reunion at the end of the episode.
Speaker A:So, hey, good morning to you all.
Speaker A:And I want to welcome in the intro I talked about this person.
Speaker A:We've been talking about having Terri on the wheelhouse forever.
Speaker A:And I'm super excited that she's here to join us today.
Speaker A:From Houston, Texas is ISTE ASCD inaugural Transformational Leader award winner, Terry Perez.
Speaker D:Welcome.
Speaker A:Good morning.
Speaker C:Congratulations.
Speaker D:Thank you.
Speaker D:Howdy.
Speaker A:How are you, my friend?
Speaker D:I'm well.
Speaker D:I'm superb.
Speaker D:Thank you so much for asking.
Speaker A:Hey, we are so excited to have you here in the wheelhouse today.
Speaker A:So first I talked about your award, which is almost like a year ago.
Speaker A:It was November of 24 when you got that award in.
Speaker A:I think we were in Nashville, weren't we?
Speaker D:We were in Nashville.
Speaker A:We were in Nashville.
Speaker A:And so what did that mean to you?
Speaker D:Well, I'll kind of preface with.
Speaker D:Before I actually got the award in person, it was beautiful because the organization managed to, behind my back, secretly gather a lot of my colleagues, not just in my organization that I work for, but in iste, ascd, and those colleagues whom I refer to as friend Tours.
Speaker D:Yes, that's a made up word.
Speaker D:It's friend plus mentor, friendor.
Speaker D:And so it was just a unique thing where they put me on a zoom and there were like 20 people in this zoom.
Speaker D:It was more than just the Brady Bun all saying, surprise, we're here because you're getting this award.
Speaker D:And that meant the world to me.
Speaker D:All these people that I adore and respect honoring me in such a way that I never even expected.
Speaker D:But the award itself means a lot to me because it's about being a visionary in an area where there's already that is saturated with people who are doing great work and to be counted among them was a deep honor and well deserved.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:I've known you for quite a while.
Speaker A:It is also well deserved.
Speaker A:So I want to talk about this term Transformational Leader for a minute because we use this term, it gets used everywhere, as do other terms for leadership.
Speaker A:Everybody has their take on that, including yours truly.
Speaker A:I have one as well, which is superior.
Speaker A:But we won't go there.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:But, but, but this idea of which I love, this idea of naming something, naming a person or naming a style of leadership as is something that is transformational when you think of that term.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And when we use the term, you know, today or you know, it's everywhere, what does it mean when we say, oh, so and so is a transformational leader or this is about transformational.
Speaker D:How.
Speaker A:Do you define that?
Speaker D:I mean, I usually try to stay within, you know, a more narrow view of what transformational leadership is, which is really somebody who inspires others to do exceptional things and to do exceptional things beyond what they thought they could.
Speaker D:So for me, it's really about being the kind of friendor champion and being able to see in others, but they don't yet see for themselves.
Speaker D:And I think that's a big part of, to me, transformational leadership, having a vision that goes beyond what everybody else sees and being able to say, we can get there and we can do it together.
Speaker A:And can you think of a concrete example of.
Speaker A:I mean, that's the best definition of transformational leader I've heard and I love that definition.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:In everyday practical, hey, let's do this.
Speaker A:What would it look like?
Speaker D:I think it's really about finding your people.
Speaker D:In order to do that, it's very difficult to be a lone transformational leader.
Speaker D:You have to have other folks who are willing to take this particular ride with you.
Speaker D:You have to build that trust with them.
Speaker D:And so a quick example would be I'm currently doing a project at work where I'm being asked to lead a phenomenal project that has never been attempted in the state of Texas yet, which is to create an educational preparation program at a charter school that goes beyond teacher certification.
Speaker D:And the only way that that's going to be possible is if I can leverage my social capital, I guess my social capital in order to move this project along.
Speaker D:I have a zero dollar budget, of course.
Speaker D:Of course, yeah.
Speaker D:A zero dollar operating budget.
Speaker D:And yet I've been able to gather people around me who are excellent subject matter experts in order to help me create something from literally nothing.
Speaker D:And I think that's we find ourselves in those situations quite often as leaders is you're being asked to do what initially looks like the impossible.
Speaker D:And the only way that you're going to get there is say, all right, who's with me?
Speaker D:Who's with me?
Speaker D:This is going to be a crazy ride.
Speaker D:We're going to be frustrated at times, we're going to find resistance in different pockets, but we're going to get there.
Speaker D:And the only way we're going to get there is together.
Speaker D:And in your current position, there are a lot of people.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Your organization is quite large.
Speaker D:So how many thousand people?
Speaker D:Yeah, 5,000 people.
Speaker D:So, Terry, how do you find your people?
Speaker D:Oddly enough, you know, organizations as big as ours and as spread out as ours is, we have 5,000 people across the state of Texas.
Speaker D:So we'll have one campus that's out in El Paso and another one that's out in Beaumont.
Speaker D:It's 817 miles between two campuses and the two regions, the two geographic regions couldn't be farther from each other.
Speaker D:But it's really about looking for common ground.
Speaker D:When you find these people, it's about you're going to see the same people in the same circles.
Speaker D:Often.
Speaker D:For me, I worked a lot with leaders and campus leaders and district leaders and for us, the central office leaders.
Speaker D:So really kind of getting to know people in those different circles and being able to bring them together.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:So very often a leader in West Texas is not going to talk to another leader out in Beaumont.
Speaker D:But if you're the common denominator and bring them together in one virtual room for me, then you start talking about the different, you know, you.
Speaker D:You kind of what we're doing here, you drop a little question and hey, you know, discuss and you.
Speaker D:And you facilitate that discussion, Right.
Speaker D:You ensure that there's mutual respect, mutual trust.
Speaker D:And quite frankly, oftentimes with that, with these groups that I work with, we're in virtual settings.
Speaker D:My rule is don't record.
Speaker D:Try to be as much in the present moment as you possibly can.
Speaker D:When you do that, when you off the bat, say, I don't record our meetings together, there's a sense of trust that's there.
Speaker D:And people can be a lot more vulnerable with you.
Speaker D:They can be certainly authentic with you.
Speaker D:You create this environment where people can be their whole selves, you're going to find that that network gets bigger and bigger because they start talking to each other and saying, you know what?
Speaker D:This Terry lady, you know, she's quirky, but she can be trusted.
Speaker D:And that's all.
Speaker D:All I really try to do, even with 5,000 people.
Speaker D:It's about creating an organization that has a safe space where you can be trusted and trust others.
Speaker D:It sounds a lot like this humanizing approach to education.
Speaker D:Everything that we've been discussing throughout this season, really thinking about, how do you humanize education in a way that allows for transformational change?
Speaker D:And that's what I'm hearing from your approach and what you're doing.
Speaker D:Yeah, I mean, a Lot of what could be done in an organization of 5,000 is a lot of compliance work.
Speaker D:And my goal is quality work because our clients, our students, deserve nothing less.
Speaker A:Is it safe to say that in your view of transformational leadership, that we value people over the process?
Speaker D:That's a very safe assumption.
Speaker D:When you elevate people, your process will go a lot smoother.
Speaker D:If you do it the other way around, it becomes a lot more transactional, compliance driven, and no one's heart is going to be in it.
Speaker D:You wouldn't be able to work on a $0 operating budget and still get any traction.
Speaker D:It's literally the social capital that you're creating by honoring others.
Speaker D:They will then do for you when you have a call to action.
Speaker A:So this is a really interesting paradox, and I want to just throw it out there for a moment, because it's like, you know, if in Terry's world, which is a great place to be, right?
Speaker A:It's a great place to be this transformational leader, right?
Speaker A:It values people over processes because that's how we get things done.
Speaker A:And a transformational leader goes places where no one has gone before in many instances.
Speaker A:And yet we're immersed.
Speaker A:We're immersed in a system that values the status quo, test scores, all these other things, over students and students lives, right?
Speaker A:Test scores driving everything, right?
Speaker A:Looking at children from a deficit lens because they're two standard deviations away from where they should be.
Speaker A:Because it's November 13th, right?
Speaker A:So when a transformational leader sees that awkward clash between the transactional herding nature of schools and this value and belief that we value people, that would be students, too, over.
Speaker A:Over tasks, over processes, over products.
Speaker A:What is a transformational leader?
Speaker A:How do you hope transformational leaders respond when they see that clash?
Speaker D:Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker D:When I speak to leaders in my organization, that's a huge hurdle for many of them.
Speaker D:I mean, there's the personal hurdles, right?
Speaker D:Time management, et cetera.
Speaker D:But the biggest hurdle is I'm trying to do right by kids, and it just feels like the system isn't allowing me to do so.
Speaker D:And one of the things I tell them is, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Speaker D:There are some pieces that transactional leadership can give you that are actually useful.
Speaker D:For example, the contingent reward idea, this idea that there is supposed to be role clarity.
Speaker D:When you have role clarity, you know, if you do A, then B, this cause and effect will happen with role clarity.
Speaker D:That's kindness, right?
Speaker D:I expect to you as a teacher, these are my Expectations.
Speaker D:And this is what happens when we meet them.
Speaker D:I expect you as a student, these are our expectations.
Speaker D:This is what will happen when you meet them.
Speaker D:So there's some tiny pieces of transactional, I mean, yeah, transactional leadership that can be in play, because those pieces, that role clarity, that contingent reward, goes back to how you're going to enact transformational leadership, right?
Speaker D:So if I know that you as a teacher, these are my expectations of you, how do I motivate you to meet them and go beyond.
Speaker D:If these are my expectations of you as a student, how do I motivate you to meet those and go far beyond them?
Speaker D:And that is where that whole, you know, system can be rigged in your favor as a transformational leader.
Speaker D:Because if you're able to say, this is clarity around what we're tasked to do, I can help you guys get there.
Speaker D:And so that juxtaposition is just context.
Speaker D:We're all going to find that.
Speaker D:So find the good pieces that's there and maximize those with the pieces.
Speaker D:You're bringing in personally of your philosophy with regards to transformation.
Speaker B:So I hear you saying we have to use the gifts in the space.
Speaker B:So in order to use the gifts in the space, we have to have human connections and know what those gifts are, right?
Speaker B:So how do we come about that communicative action and that, that, that really courageous conversation where everyone feels welcome, safe, and trusting enough to really reveal their gifts?
Speaker D:A big piece of it is being authentic.
Speaker D:And really, it goes beyond that golden rule, right?
Speaker D:It's not, you know, treat others as you would want them to be treated, how you would want to be treated.
Speaker D:It's treat others the way they deserve to be treated, with dignity, with respect, with honor.
Speaker D:We're only on this planet for a short time, so if you understand that the time that we have together has to be precious, then you can start making a safe space with other people.
Speaker A:You know, I was listening to and I was trying, I wanted to include this in the conversation today, and I've been desperately trying to figure out who said it.
Speaker A:Last night I was in my car driving home and Ari Melber was on MSNBC and he was interviewing an actor.
Speaker A:But I caught, like, the last part of the conversation, and I've been googling, trying to figure out who it was, and I can't find him yet.
Speaker A:It was some, you know, a male actor, and they were talking about a lot of different things.
Speaker A:But, you know, the part of the conversation that I caught, so it's completely out of context.
Speaker A:All I can just Share with you what was said, because I thought it was so cool.
Speaker A:And he said.
Speaker A:He said, you know, it's the difference between what we're seeing in the world, Right.
Speaker A:Because he's going to be in some movie that, you know, is, you know, political.
Speaker A:He goes, but what we're seeing is.
Speaker A:Is people deciding.
Speaker A:People deciding whether they want to embrace love or hate.
Speaker A:And I was like, oh, okay, I've heard that before.
Speaker A:Right, okay.
Speaker A:But then he said.
Speaker A:He goes, but hate's the easy one.
Speaker A:He goes, it's super easy to hate.
Speaker A:He goes, it takes a lot more time and a lot more energy to love.
Speaker A:And I was like, okay, now you're onto something.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And he goes, but we're all.
Speaker A:He goes, we're all too focused on what we want.
Speaker A:And if we're only.
Speaker A:If we're only concerned about what we want, then we live in the world of hate because, you know, everybody else is going to keep us from getting it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Versus sometimes you have to give.
Speaker A:You have to let that go.
Speaker A:And if you're going to concentrate on love.
Speaker A:And it is kind of.
Speaker A:Kind of tying into what you just said.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I thought it was.
Speaker A:I thought it was a really interesting.
Speaker A:Again, I.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:That I can't remember who or, you know, I don't know who that actor was who was.
Speaker A:I've looked for it, but I thought it was a really interesting idea.
Speaker A:What do you think of that?
Speaker D:It's a great metaphor for the difference between transactional leadership and transformational leadership.
Speaker A:Oh, that's.
Speaker D:One is.
Speaker A:Oh, that's.
Speaker D:One is a lot more difficult to complete than the other.
Speaker D:I wouldn't use the word hate.
Speaker D:I would be love versus not love.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker A:To know Terry means.
Speaker A:To know Terry knows that she doesn't live in the world of something that dark.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker D:Really, I don't.
Speaker D:It's such a strong word, and that's just reserved for very exceptional reasons.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Don't get me wrong.
Speaker D:I've used it like, you know, but really, it's a great metaphor for the amount of effort you're going to put in to see a result.
Speaker D:To love means you have to be empathetic, means to know, you know, have.
Speaker D:Be in touch with your emotional intelligence means that you've got to be graceful and that, you know, giving grace to others and being a lot more understanding and perhaps not getting exactly what you want at the time when you want it, but knowing what you need and what others may need as well, caring enough to know what others need on the transactional side, the not love side.
Speaker D:To that actor's point, you're so deep in the trenches of what you want, you don't care about what other people.
Speaker A:Need and you don't see value in those other people by default.
Speaker A:You see them as an obstacle.
Speaker B:It's real, Machiavellian, right?
Speaker B:So when you're talking about not love, right?
Speaker B:And then you add competition, it becomes this, this self righteousness that really hones this insulated view that my mental model, my paradigm is right and all of you must assimilate to my rightness and therefore develop, it develops this polarized of me, them, others, okay, right and wrong, transactional versus transformational.
Speaker B:And then we wonder why those there are others, the others resist because you're setting up that environment and that ecosystem where there is a right and a wrong.
Speaker B:And those who sit in spaces around the table that create the norms for the ecosystem are right.
Speaker B:So I know that we're going to ask a question about resistance.
Speaker B:I'd like to really think about the rest of our conversation and just weave some self reflective thought around.
Speaker B:Why does the resistor resist?
Speaker B:Because then that affects Terry, as you said, our clients, our students, our families, our community stakeholders, our stakeholders, overall, society, economy.
Speaker B:And I could go on because there is a domino effect.
Speaker B:Any thoughts around that?
Speaker C:I want to jump in a little bit because Terry, when you began the conversation and you defined transformational leadership is inspiring others to do extraordinary things, something opened up inside me immediately.
Speaker C:And when I think about transactional leadership and the comment that you just shared, Grant, I'm reminded of theory X and theory Y.
Speaker C:When I first began thinking and being trained in systems thought, systems design.
Speaker D:We.
Speaker C:Know that theory X is about coercion.
Speaker C:It sees people as sort of spiritless assets to be used to effect a desired change.
Speaker C:And Alicia, you remind us that those people who possess cultural cache, cultural power, seek to maintain control and to exert control.
Speaker C:And they define what's acceptable.
Speaker C:And that's another form of Theory X.
Speaker C:And theory Y understands that behind every data point is a soul, a human being.
Speaker C:And when we recognize the power of inspiration, of spiriting individuals and colleagues and recognizing the assets that they already possess and that the flame that already burns inside them.
Speaker C:And our view is a theory.
Speaker C:Why view?
Speaker C:To serve that resource in a way that allows it to blossom, to expand, to become that that links so many things together about what transformational leadership is, where it originates from, some of those core beliefs.
Speaker C:Am I, am I on the right thread?
Speaker D:Well, I would definitely say yes.
Speaker D:It takes a lot of Effort to go against Theory X, right?
Speaker D:It takes a lot of effort.
Speaker D:It's the swimming upstream.
Speaker D:And as we've been saying, transformational leadership.
Speaker D:We throw that around like it's confetti.
Speaker D:And the reality is it's a big heavy book, right?
Speaker D:Like it's deep work.
Speaker D:It is swimming upstream.
Speaker D:It is knowing thyself.
Speaker D:It is knowing the parameters that you find yourself in.
Speaker D:And when I say parameters, I mean systems.
Speaker D:And, and which ones you have the strength to swim against and which ones you might say, you know what, it's not for today, I'll swim around it instead.
Speaker D:And, and that's the only way you're going to find peace really, is knowing which of the systems you're going to battle.
Speaker D:Because it's hard already as it is.
Speaker D:You're already swimming upstream.
Speaker A:So I would like to start to talk about this word resistance.
Speaker A:And this is always a fascinating conversation for me because I don't think it's all terrible, but I think that the status quo, this transactional herding nature of school, I do think that's terrible.
Speaker A:And nobody alive created it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's been there longer than, you know, I'm the oldest one in the room here and I didn't create it.
Speaker A: longer really what we need in: Speaker A:And you will hear people often talking about that, that, oh yes, there's great things happening in schools, totally correct.
Speaker A:There are great leaders and there are great teachers and there are great things, but there are also a whole lot of not great things.
Speaker A:And if we look at things, if we look at things historically, right, you know, we've overcome some amazing things and we're still struggling at the same time.
Speaker A:And if we follow accountability for the last 30 years, we've not gotten any, I mean, we've not gotten any better.
Speaker A:We've actually gotten worse in terms of the things that they measure.
Speaker A:Now, we all know that there are better things to measure than just those things that are measured on high stakes accountability tests at the end of the year.
Speaker A:So my question is, if we know all that, why the resistance in the first place?
Speaker A:And if you don't like that question, my other question is, when we try to overcome that or when we try to respond to the status quo, what kind of challenges do transformational leaders face?
Speaker D:I think the first one might be self doubt.
Speaker D:When you are facing something big that you want to change, high stakes testing, for example, you feel alone and you don't yet Know that there's a whole army of people who feel the same way as you and you haven't used that collective power, you know, you don't know that piece.
Speaker D:And so you're self doubting, like, can, can I, little Terri, make a difference in this organization of 5,000 people?
Speaker D:That's the first question I would ask myself without knowing that there is actually other folks in that 5,000 who feel the same way.
Speaker D:The power comes in finding them and creating a coalition in order to together move against a system or something that doesn't serve you.
Speaker D:It's all lonely at the beginning and you have to have faith that you're not alone.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, I think that's huge.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Because I think the guiding principle in the vision of the wheelhouse is that we're going to build, we're going to contribute, I should say we're going to contribute to the building of communities of like minded educators.
Speaker A:We're going to help build that collective.
Speaker A:Who says, you know, yeah, we could take some of the good pieces, we could take the good pieces, but we got to really rethink this whole thing because this should really be about how we support the lives of children and families and educators, not just about the compliance driven piece of this.
Speaker A:Of course, the reality is, yes, we want everybody to read, come on, right?
Speaker A:Yes, we want everybody to be college and career ready.
Speaker A:Of course.
Speaker A:Of course we do.
Speaker A:No one wants to put a child out into the world who's ill prepared to deal with whatever is coming in the 21st century, but you don't do that by thumping test scores on them.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:There are better ways to go about doing that.
Speaker A:And so I think you're, you know, I think you're onto sort of jump on that idea because you're building a coalition that you call it, or a community of like minded folks that we call it, I think is really important to be able to stand up to the compliance driven transactional nature and to put a dent in it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And to put a dent in it.
Speaker C:Terry, am I right?
Speaker C:When I, I hear you speak, the kind of resistance, the dimension that I hear of resistance in your leadership work is resistance to feeling hopeless when you exhort colleagues to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Speaker C:That there are elements right now in this existing system that we can use and we can use them differently as long as we are all like minded about what we believe matters more.
Speaker C:And to me that's an essential practice against hopelessness.
Speaker D:I mean, and hopelessness is probably something that plagues Us daily in and out of the school system, right?
Speaker D:It's a big piece of self care is to maintain your hope and your hopefulness.
Speaker D:And so there are ways of using things that.
Speaker D:I was just thinking about what Grant was saying.
Speaker D:You know, the accountability measures 20 years ago, drill and kill was a thing, you know, teaching to the test was not frowned upon.
Speaker D:You know, so we've made a change, right?
Speaker D:Small as it is, but collectively, I would think most of us would agree, and I say most of us in education beyond the wheelhouse, most of us would agree that drill and kill practices are not helpful for anybody.
Speaker D:There's so much research behind that.
Speaker D:We can use those small things like research to propel us forward.
Speaker D:That was a big game to say that drill and kill was bad for kids and you weren't going to get the results that you needed or wanted.
Speaker D:So there are ways of using what is good out there and amplifying it in such a way that now it's standard, right?
Speaker D:It's a standard belief.
Speaker D:I think we just need to find those nuggets of what's going well and figure out how to amplify them with our coalition or our community and to where we standardize that belief.
Speaker B:There is a movement, right?
Speaker B:A swimming upstream, but it's very slow, it's in drips and drabs and it's not consistent.
Speaker B:There is hope because there are some that come out and they will, they will seek to transform because as you said Terry earlier, it's about their purpose and it's about a call to action.
Speaker B:And then we, you know, we will build coalitions and we will move forward and we will take that time.
Speaker B:However, transformational leadership still sits on the margins of the system.
Speaker B:With that said, I noticed that on LinkedIn you reposted a powerful and poignant post.
Speaker B:As an Afro Latina myself that identifies proudly as Afro Latin, it made me warm to feel that there is a voice behind the identity and unfortunate systems that many of us have to navigate through.
Speaker B:The post was actually posted by Latinas with masters and I'm just going to take a moment to read it because I definitely want to be deliberate in the presentation because it is so powerful.
Speaker B:So it reads from the inside how academic systems systematically silence challengers.
Speaker B:They discuss your replacement with others openly while you're still in the position.
Speaker B:They have informal chats about the direction of your department or program without your input.
Speaker B:They make decisions without you in the room.
Speaker B:They eliminate your voice from committees and gatekeep every future opportunity.
Speaker B:Your expertise is no Longer sought out or valued.
Speaker B:They see your campless influence as a threat, so silencing becomes their priority.
Speaker B:Sound familiar?
Speaker B:What types of retaliation have emerged in your experience that that challenged you, that challenged me, that challenged every reader.
Speaker B:Because that is the unfortunate conditions of those who seek to transform for the greater good and are marginalized by those in power, Michael, that sit in those decision making systems.
Speaker B:So my question is, do you have.
Speaker B:First of all, I want to thank you for reposting that because I then reposted.
Speaker B:And my question is, Terry, do you have any tips on how to stay healthy mind, body and spirit, as these subversive acts are experienced as a normal part of many workplace cultures?
Speaker D:I would say recognizing that that's a playbook, I mean, you know, it's football season, right?
Speaker D:It's a playbook of the other team.
Speaker D:You've got to have your own playbook.
Speaker D:And so to your point, Alicia, how do you preserve your sanity when you're up against a team that has honed their playbook in some cases over decades, with some systems over centuries?
Speaker D:How do you preserve yourself to continue this fight?
Speaker D:And a big part of it is have regular check in with yourself.
Speaker D:We always talk about reflective practitioners, that leaders should be reflective practitioners.
Speaker D:When do we find time for that?
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker D:We see it as so important.
Speaker D:When do we find time for that?
Speaker D:You know, we are, we sit in a professional learning and we talk about, you know, reflection and we may have five minutes out of a seven hour professional development.
Speaker D:How do we practice what we're preaching and when do we do that?
Speaker D:For me, I find sacred the time I sit in traffic.
Speaker D:That's a lot of time for me to be reflective.
Speaker D:I, I don't.
Speaker D:I'm not bothered by Houston traffic anymore.
Speaker D:You know, it takes an hour to get from one place in Houston to another place in Houston.
Speaker D:You know, like.
Speaker D:But that's sacred time to me.
Speaker D:There's no radio, there's no audiobook.
Speaker D:It's just me.
Speaker D:And how did this go?
Speaker D:Not overthinking, but how did this go?
Speaker D:And how, how do I feel about myself and what I'm trying to do?
Speaker D:And my purpose was I aligned with what I meant to do today.
Speaker D:So for me, that's a big piece of keeping yourself healthy.
Speaker D:That's mind, body.
Speaker D:You know, there's so much research behind touching grass, right?
Speaker D:Go outside, fill your lungs with something other than what you're fighting.
Speaker D:Because sometimes what you're fighting is in the same building as you.
Speaker D:So go outside, take the kids out to recess, right?
Speaker D:Take a Walk, walk your dogs, whatever that looks like for you, as best you can.
Speaker D:Make it daily.
Speaker D:When I can't guess what I do during that commute, I do the sunroof.
Speaker D:I may be breathing in a lot of smog, but I'm getting some UV on me.
Speaker D:And then spirit.
Speaker D:Spirit can look in so many different ways for different individuals.
Speaker D:I know Alicia gets up at 4am to commune and to feed her spirit.
Speaker D:I am only familiar with the concept of 4am I like its friend, 4pm much better.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker D:But spirit can be, hey, I'm in a moment, in a season.
Speaker D:How do I reach out?
Speaker D:Recently I had a small crisis in my family and getting chugged up, I reached out to Alicia and said, I need you in one of your 4am meditation moments to pray for me and mine.
Speaker D:I knew I was praying, but I needed to know that there were other people with me on the same journey.
Speaker D:So that fed my spirit, is to reach out to a friend tour and say, hey, this is happening.
Speaker D:Without going into too much detail, can I have your help?
Speaker D:Can I have your good vibes, your thoughts?
Speaker D:So there's different ways of feeding the spirit, but you have to find them.
Speaker D:There's again, transformational leadership is hard because you have to find those three things for yourself and then inspire other people to do the same for themselves.
Speaker D:As we say, yeah, you know, reflective practitioners, you know, oh, really?
Speaker D:How much time do you spend?
Speaker D:If you spent eight hours of your day at work, do you spend more than five minutes reflecting?
Speaker D:Is it proportional?
Speaker D:Do you spend more than 10 minutes walking outside?
Speaker D:Is it proportional?
Speaker D:Are you reaching out to others, whether they be out in the universe or simply a text away?
Speaker D:And is it proportional?
Speaker D:Is if it's not, then that's where there's no balance, right?
Speaker D:I'm not saying that four hours of work and four hours of play.
Speaker D:No, I'm saying is it proportional to what you need in order to keep Michael to your point, keep hope alive?
Speaker D:And so that's for me, when you're in an organization, know their playbook, create your own.
Speaker C:Terry, I'm reminded of the initiative that is beginning, that you have started and is underway across a 5,000 human being organization that spans 50,000 kids thousands of miles.
Speaker C:What evidence do you gather as you seek to create your circles and your network, your coalition, that the phone call you make, the contact, the conversation you're having with a professional colleague is so desperately needed on the other end.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker C:Are some of the experiences you've had that your appeal for connection has been met with A deep kind of gratitude.
Speaker D:Surprisingly, Michael, quite a few.
Speaker D:I'll begin with.
Speaker D:I had a new principal out in Waco, which is about a four hour drive in Texas.
Speaker D:We don't talk about miles so much as hours of driving.
Speaker D:So that 817 miles between those two campuses is actually about a 12 hour drive.
Speaker D:14 hours if you decide to hit every Buc ee's along the way.
Speaker D:I digress.
Speaker D:So I had this principal in Waco and something told me to reach out to her.
Speaker D:It was her maybe first or second year.
Speaker D:She was a novice.
Speaker D:And so it was her first year actually.
Speaker D:And so I just.
Speaker D:Something told me, reach out to her.
Speaker D:And so I did.
Speaker D:And I said, how are you doing?
Speaker D:She said, fine.
Speaker D:And I said, no, how are you doing?
Speaker D:And it all came out right.
Speaker D:She's struggling, et cetera, all the things.
Speaker D:And I said, well, do you have support?
Speaker D:And she's like, yeah, my husband's great, my family's great.
Speaker D:I said, no, no, no, no.
Speaker D:Which principal Friends?
Speaker D:People who are walking the same walk.
Speaker D:Do you have support with as a woman of color in an organization that doesn't have that many people of color at the helm?
Speaker D:Do you know other principals who are walking this walk with you?
Speaker D:She said, well, I feel bad about, you know, reaching out to my mentor.
Speaker D:I said, no, no, no, that's what the mentor's for.
Speaker D:And I said, I need, you know, just hold one minute.
Speaker D:I got onto the other line, I got another principal, a man of color, and I got.
Speaker D:I connected the two of them because I've never walked that particular walk.
Speaker D:I've never been a principal of a campus, so I couldn't.
Speaker D:I could only be a sounding board, reflection and cheerleader for her.
Speaker D:But I knew she needed more, and so I connected her with more.
Speaker D:There was a lot of gratitude there on both sides because the individual I called up, he was like, oh, wow, you know, you called me because I need you, because this person needs you.
Speaker D:And that was.
Speaker D:That was a small one, but it was.
Speaker D:It got amplified.
Speaker D:You know, you get the thank yous.
Speaker D:Hey, you randomly called me.
Speaker D:And that's when I needed it.
Speaker D:It's those small little human checkpoints.
Speaker D:And I know that there's a movement there among our students, right?
Speaker D:Checking in with our students, meeting them at the door threshold.
Speaker D:What we don't understand is that that is so huge.
Speaker D:Just to check in.
Speaker D:And you may not hear the thank you, the gratitude.
Speaker D:Just reminding other people that they're not alone is an act of courage.
Speaker D:Back to Grant's point.
Speaker D:It's an act of love and.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And this Wheelhouse is all about if you're in an organization, you feel like you're doing it all alone.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And this is all about creating a community of like minded educators, as Terry calls it.
Speaker A:A coalition.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:A coalition, if you will.
Speaker A:And we are.
Speaker A:We always stand ready to assist.
Speaker A:Terri, thank you so much for joining us today in the Wheelhouse.
Speaker B:Thank you guys.
Speaker A:And for all of you, have a great week.
Speaker A:And that's a wrap of Season 10 Episode 9 of the Wheelhouse.
Speaker A:A special thank you to my amazing guest Terry Perez and the Wheelhouse team, Kathy Mone, Michael Piper and Dr. Alicia Munro.
Speaker A:We're back in the studio next week with Dr. Kesha Chandler talking about her research the One Room Schoolhouse.
Speaker A:Don't miss this exciting episode dropping on September 16th.
Speaker A:We also hope you'll join the Wheelhouse Company.
Speaker A:Are you a like minded educator who's committed to open doors and unlimited possibilities for each student?
Speaker A:Follow Students Matter LLC on Instagram or LinkedIn or any of the four of us who are also unlimited LinkedIn or you can subscribe to the Wheelhouse Chronicle on Substack.
Speaker A:Michael's waiting to hear your comments and we're all excited to continue this conversation with you.
Speaker A:That's the wheelhouse.substack.com and finally, join the curated community, the Wheelhouse Forum, only available at Students Matter's very own Learn Harbor.
Speaker A:That's LearnHarbor Thinkification.
Speaker A:The Wheelhouse is a production of Students Matter LLC.
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Speaker A:Find out what's important to us.
Speaker A:Check out what we offer at www.ourstudentsmatter.org.
Speaker A:together, our goal is simply to prove to each student and to each teacher that they are both distinctive, irreplaceable.
Speaker A:Until next time.
Speaker A:Remember, we got this.
